The Truth About Surrogacy Escrow: How Your Money Is Actually Protected

Rebecca Deegan
Hi everyone, welcome back to the surrogate buzz. Today is a very hot topic in our industry. How to housey funds are protected. And we're gonna be uh with Adam Winder, who is the CEO of C Trust, so that we can talk through this But before we get started, don't forget to like, subscribe, hit the notification bell, and leave a comment. This helps any intended parent or surrogate that's looking into this process get more information. Without further ado, Adam, thank you so much for joining us today.

Adam Winder
Yeah, thanks for having me on.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, of course. Um, I mean you do this every day, and we get lots of questions every single day about um just surrogacy and the funds, which is probably like the number one question. If it's not how much are we paying, it's where is my money being put and how is that um safeguarded. So um we're really excited to have you and uh Get excited to hear the education that you're going to be able to give intended parents.

Adam Winder
So excited to be here and excited to share. I certainly think it's a really fun topic.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, I know. I feel like there's a there's I mean we do this every day, so to us it seems um, you know, just like second nature, but when you're trying to obviously explain it to intended parents and you know, just like the risk of surrogacy and the financial responsibility, it can uh seem very overwhelming. Yeah. So before we get into the details, can you explain what escrow actually is in the context of surrogacy and why it exists?

Adam Winder
Yeah, absolutely. So escrow is and what we do is very different than escrow and how people generally think about it. The most common form of escrow is when you buy a home, right? So that's generally one transaction, very short term. Um and the escrow company is really just acting on the instruction of one thing being complete What we do in surrogacy is very different. The escrow company, which is really in the way the way it is today, was pioneered by us. What it does truly is it serves as the intermediary between the surrogate and the parents to make sure, as a third party, to make sure the funds are managed fairly and per the contract. So at at a high level, that's the answer. And the day-to-day, what that looks like is we manage reviewing the requests from all parties, from surrogates, from agencies. From all vendors and make sure they're in line with they're documented properly and in line with the contract. And in the servicey journey, generally speaking, it's about a two-year process, right? Right. And especially in terms of escrow. So we're going to manage that process for about 70 to 80 payments over two years and make sure those payments are done on time. in the course of the contract and managed fairly. So that's the core component of escrow.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. I love that. I feel like when someone hears escrow they think of real estate. So I'm glad you noted that because I feel like if you Google Escrill, you're never gonna see surrogacy. And obviously it has evolved over time, you know, as the industry has changed Yeah. Um so many intended parents are making pretty much one of the largest financial commitments um of their life other outside of maybe buying a home or something like that um without actually having something that you're paying for, right? So what worries do you hear most often when people are starting to learn about escrow?

Adam Winder
Yeah, for sure. I mean certainly recently, I always say when escrow is working well, it's an afterthought. Certainly recently with the issues we've had with less secure providers or providers set up in a non-ideal way, um stealing the money, escrow has become a hot topic. So Historically, the questions around escrow from parents was, how do you protect my money? Right? How do you make sure that payments are only in accordance to the contract? How what happens in the event of dispute, right? Recently, in the last couple of years, and rightfully so Parents are saying, how is my money safe? Right? What safeguards are in place to protect my funds And then we can get into explaining what that looks like and what's important to be in place. Um, which is the right questions, right? If I was an intended parent, I would look at an escrow provider and say Are you qualified to do this? Right. Are you qualified to manage the money correctly? Mm-hmm. Do you have expertise in this niche space to manage the money and make sure it does follow the contract? And then is my money and information safe? Those are the three core questions and there's a click in to each of those to make sure that they confirmly check that box.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like um which takes me into my next uh question, but um you know I feel like you probably have to prove yourself a little bit more than maybe you did in the past, um, with just seed trust being well known in the industry, but um why is it risky, which is an interesting question, um, when agencies hold funds directly instead of using independent escrow companies, and I guess this could go for either agency or um attorney because I think those are the two that kind of have come up recently.

Adam Winder
Yeah so Rebecca Rebecca, let's If I can, let's just talk about like what secure escrow looks like.

Rebecca Deegan
Let's do it.

Adam Winder
And then I will click into why that doesn't work if an agency holds escrow and some of the issues I see if the parents attorney hold escrow. So first of all, for an escrow company to be secure, you need to have a qualified leadership team. An escrow company manages millions of dollars And have very complex payment schedules across a lot of cases very quickly that have very time sensitive And and and contract specific payments. So you need a qualified team that has the expertise in both the review piece, the legal, the legal piece to make sure they can understand these contracts and make those determinations and the complexity of running an accounting infrastructure and payment infrastructure securely. So qualified teams. So to me that looks like having legal accounting and industry specific expertise. If the leadership of the Entity managing your money doesn't have those expertise, I wouldn't hire them. It's like you wouldn't put money at a bank that wasn't run by qualified executives. for example, nor would they get licensed. The other component in any financial company, in an escrow company, is a financial company. Any financial company needs to have the proper safeguards in place in terms of how they operate day in and day out. And what does that mean? For us accounting and financial nerds, it means checks and balances. So what that means is not one person or group or two people could steal the money. So what does proper checks and balances look like? The person initiating the request is different from the person approving the request, who's different from the person releasing the payment, who's different from the people releasing the banks, who's differ from the people doing the audits internally and separate from the external audits So what I just described is a delegation and separation of powers that makes it to where not one person or two people could collude to steal the money I think you know in a in our company it would take four people who report to different teams to steal a single dollar, including myself, and then that would get caught by our auditor internally and then if not externally. So That allows to make sure there's checks and balances. If one person has full access and control to the money and can move the money or approve the money, the risk of temptation and fraud is too high. So that's good old checks and balances. And then you also need the proper systems and controls to make sure people can't bypass that. Right? You can have the perfect layout of boring these boring checks and balances, but if there's not systems and processes to make sure people can't bypass them then they don't matter, right? So that's when you get into technical infrastructure with with with proper systems to manage the process and also proper accounting systems. So the other piece then which we hear about when things go wrong is the secondary forms of security. So what does that really look like? Industrial company needs to have proper insurance and bonding packages. And you hear a lot of misinformation out there, right? So you'll hear escrow companies say, FDIC insured. Well that's great. That only protects if their bank fails. Or you'll hear them talking about their liability insurance. Good things for companies to have in place. These things don't actually protect escrow dollars. What protects escrow dollars is the what's called what's ref referenced as a bond or criminal insurance policy. That's what actually protects if the money is stolen. And errors and admission protects if the mistake happens to lose the money. Those are the two critical policies. I think an escrow companies should have a minimum of ten million in place in the bond or criminal policy, and a million of one in the errors and emission. And why that matters, Rebecca, is because At ten million in bonding, that's when the insurance companies really start to look at that escrow company. CT Trust has a hundred million. The underwriting and insurance that we go through annually, imagine I have a stack of 20 insurance companies who specialize in evaluating risk Right? They're gonna look at all of our information to determine we're worth a hundred million dollar risk to their shareholders and their expertise is evaluating risk. Right? So what that does is it gives validation that an external financial firm is looking and checking. And then the last thing is just that secondary review. Um and I'll I'll I'll I know I can talk about this stuff all day, right?

Rebecca Deegan
But I love it. This is perfect.

Adam Winder
The next thing you really need is you need external audits. Right, so transparency is critical and you know, a company with the proper systems in place, that's great But you also need an external form of audit. And what that looks like is it looks like having a third-party CPA come in and audit the escrow company. And I think it's a best practice for the escrow company to share the outcome of that audit as it pertains to the escrow dollars with their clients. So proper system proper team processes systems proper insurances and safeguards and then audits to confirm it's all there as they're saying it's there. If all that's in place it can be done securely The cases we've seen, none of that was in place. The cases of theft we've seen. And you know, we take a lot of pride in being the entity leading the charge and moving that forward. But all the ones that have happened, the good news is it's completely avoidable if people are educated on what should be in place for somebody managing their money. So that's foundational. I don't care whether you're an escrow company, a lawyer, an agency If you're holding money, that's the cost to get to the table. I think if that's not there, run. Right? And to me, what I outline is like the absolute minimum Not like what I think should be achieved. And my problem the issue when an agency holds the money is there's too big of a conflict of interest. And that's why it's illegal in a lot of states You shouldn't be the party that brings everybody together, recommends providers, and controls the money. It's riddled with issues just from a natural conflict of interest standpoint, i. e. , you're earning a fee and paying yourself. And also most agencies aren't qual don't have the infrastructure to run it properly. So we've we've seen that consistently and I would I would run from any agency saying they should hold escrow. Um that conflicts too even if they're great people and you like 'em and then maybe they're not doing it for the wrong reasons. Uh maybe they started it a long time ago or they do truly believe it's better. But from my standpoint the conflict of interest is too high and it just shouldn't be trusted. We've seen that time and time again. Attorneys historically have held escrow for a long time and they hold escrow and all other segments of the legal field. But again, what we do is very unique. So attorney holding escrow for their fee or for one settlement in their law firm. That's common practice. But when you have this complex 70 payment plus financial operation to run across lots of cases, most of them aren't set up to do it. But if they are set up and they have the proper items we talked about before in place, I think they can do it really well. But what that doesn't get rid of is it doesn't get rid of the fact that they're gonna have typically have an unnatural an unfair advantage within representing one party legally.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
And we've seen it time and time again in the small percentage of cases that go wrong That attorney client privilege with one party, typically the IPs, can really put the agency and most importantly the surrogacy at a surrogate at a huge disadvantage because they have to represent their clients' interest, even if their client's wrong. And the difference there for C trust is we we an independent escrow company is we have to follow the contract. Doesn't matter who's right or wrong. It's what the contract says or what people uh have agreed to outside of it. So That that's is kind of how I describe it. Anybody and anybody saying they don't need to meet these requirements or these requirements are too hard, again, I outline the minimum, what I think to to to hold people's money and manage people's money. So if they're if they're pushing against needing that minimum, I don't think they should be trusted.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, and there's so many ins and outs of a contract and what is due and um obviously some gray areas. Um, you know, we always talk about um you know, one side holding trust, which is nice that there's third party trust or escrow accounts such as C trust, just cause it there is no There's no tie to either side. And I think that's kind of where, like you mentioned, the we've seen issues in the past where one has a one side has a higher gain than the other because of the person who's holding their trust. So um I think that that's really great information that you provided. Um you know the third party and to me, I think makes more sense um than having one side over the other.

Adam Winder
It's really interesting if you look back, right? Like CTRS came into the segment 10 years ago, and from like my financial mind, I was like mind-blown of what was happening, right? To me it was like the wild completely the wild, wild west. Like how does this exist?

Rebecca Deegan
You know, and it wasn't ten years wasn't that long ago. Like I feel like how is it not in How was how were you guys not a thing before that? Because 10 years isn't that long.

Adam Winder
Yeah, but what what and so when you see some of the legacy providers, they're just adapting still. Um and what we'd like to see is just and what we're trying to push is for people that are holding money to adapt quicker. Um you know when we s when we came in to the field, what we saw was what was escrow back then was actually not providing any value or protection. It was actually creating more process pain. and more risk. Um because what escrow was 10 years ago was attorneys and escrow shops holding money but having no responsibility or authority. to review the contract or check the payments or check the receipts. All they did was action based on the agency's request and all the responsibility and legal Work went to the agency. So the agency could tell the escrow company to pay anything, and per their escrow agreement, they had to do that. So it actually didn't provide any value or protection. in that sense. The other thing is it was a good old no technology, no electronic payments, check was in the mail. Yep. So imagine today You're a surrogate and you're sitting there and it's in the month and the agency submitted your request that went into a black hole and then checks in the mail. So what's the the surrogate's calling the agency, trying to call the escrow company, saying, Where's my money? Right? In addition, there was no transparency to parents. They didn't know what their ledger was. The ledger came out once a month. There was no such thing as scheduled payments. So We we really came in and said what escrow needs to operate as in this field is really kind of modeled after a trust company and a bank. that really t steps in and acts as that third party fiduciary between them parties, it takes the responsibility to make the financial components run smoothly. So We implemented electronic payments, a portal to see how to have access that's gotten better over the 10 years schedule payment calendars where we schedule the surrogate's compensation for her so she knows when that money's coming and doesn't have to worry about it a lot of different payment solutions, um bonding and audits and all the things that are kind of normal that we're pushing to have everybody rise up to today is what we saw the need for in terms of secure escrow that Adds value. Right. So otherwise it's just an illusion of protection.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. And uh I said, yeah, um, old school surrogacy, you had to wait for your check to come in the mail and hope that uh the mail didn't get lost or, you know, whatever would have happened with the mail. So Um it's definitely evolved over yeah many years, which is which is great. And just the transparency of the account you know, the surrogate can see it, the IPs can see it. Um, you know, because I feel like it's very heavily weighted on the IPs, right? The IPs are the ones who are providing the money and the money is going into account and yes, they need to be protected, but a lot of times We don't talk about the surrogate side, you know, the that the surrogate knows that the money is in there. Like I'm 20 weeks pregnant is the money that I'm supposed to be getting paid per my contract in the account and can I see that? And Um so I think just the transparency obviously checks and balances the trust account knowing how much money needs to be in the account and when it needs to be in the account and you know, protecting both sides and having just the transparency of being able to see the money that's in there and what's actually coming out and going in.

Adam Winder
Yeah, I love that you brought up the surrogate pr deserving that protection. Look, I think what surrogates do is like one of the most amazing and selfless things I can't barely like even wrap my head around it, but it's like one of the most beautiful things somebody could do to help a deserving couple or family grow their family I like in my head I liken them as like superheroes. Right? Or they're doing something that they're doing something so beautiful that can never m if you don't do it you probably can never put it into words or understand that, you know The only thing I can correlate it to is like giving somebody like an organ like an organ to save their life or something. It's just like such an incredible feat that they're doing. But at the same time, they are there is inherent risk in this. And they're doing an incredible thing and they deserve to be protected, right? A surrogate should never have to go into a journey worried that she's not going to get paid for her compensation or she's going to be left with medical bills at the end or end up in a scenario where tensions rise and the money's being weaponized for somebody to get their way to get her to do something they want her to do that's not in her contract Right. So we take a lot of pride in how we're structured and how we operate to make sure that we protect the surrogates equally And that the money can't be weaponized and that the and the and ultimately that we remove that that tension as a in-between so they can just focus on the baby and the parents can focus on the their future family

Rebecca Deegan
Right.

Adam Winder
But we see heartbreaking stories daily where they went elsewhere and the circuit doesn't have that equal representation. Um and it it's it's it's only a minority of cases, but those are the ones that hurt the most and that we see in the news

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, and the escrow for surrogacy is just so different from any other escrow in the fact that it's human Right? We're talking about like a human being born. There's nothing t m tangible and obviously, you know, this a financial risk for intended parents going through this because there is nothing that You know, they could put in all this money and not get something out of it. But in the same side, it's like, okay, if there are issues that arise, um, this isn't a tangible thing that you can give back, like you're not gonna lose your house or whatever. It's like the surrogate is pregnant. with your child. And so there has to be that protection on your side and, you know, for the IPs and the surrogate, because this is just such a I mean this is not like any other business transaction that any that you'll ever do. So, you know, you have to be I I don't even know really how to explain it exactly other than the fact that it's just human life that we're talking about. And it's and it's just like a different business model than anybody's ever dealt with, right?

Adam Winder
Yeah, it's incre I mean look, it's the one of the most expensive emotional and complex processes anybody could go through. Right? I mean it's just um you know, put yourself in the seat of care the pressure of carrying somebody else's else's child or um and making that sacrifice at your family or the parents that have put so much into it or often gone through so much to get to that point and have that stress of somebody else caring their child. This is not an having professionals guide through this. I think what I always recommend for people is to pick professionals that do your research, pick professionals you can trust. Mm. And trust them to guide you, because if you have the right team around you, even if things don't go as planned The professionals can guide you through the harder situations and keep you focused on the the goal, the out the which is a beautiful thing of having a family, right? You know, or having a child. So I think when we see on escrow and things go off the rails, and again it's a very small minority of cases, right? But it's when it's it's when Tension gets high and it's usually and it's often over something silly, right? Or or that and that could be avoided if the side that gets emotional on it or focused on it really goes back to their agency or back to the escrow provider or even their lawyers to say What's normal in customaries here, how should we navigate it and not let that become the tension point between the parties? Because it just shouldn't be. Right?

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, right. Yeah, there's a lot of uh different cases that we see and you know we talk about communication and obviously this has nothing to do with C trust but really it's you know a break in communication where we kind of see just even the smallest thing you know uh break down in a journey so Hopefully we're we're managing that on our end or you know the attorney and the agency, but um I'm sure it doesn't make the the trust accounts job eas any easier, right, when it when an issue arises

Adam Winder
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize the agency also a group of amazing heroes in this process that is kind of the center of everything, right? Bringing everybody together, guiding the whole process, gets blamed for everything. Right? Right. So the agency has an incredibly hard role in navigating the overall process Um they also play a critical role in escrow, um, and an oversight of escrow. You know, in every case of fraud we've had in escrow, you know the first people to know, it was typically the agencies You know, and the reason another reason I think agencies should never be the ones holding escrow is I view them as a critical function of oversight Right. Agencies are looking at every escrow account. Their case managers or their financial managers looking. They know when those payments are supposed to go out. or second opinion needed. They're involved in looking at it and or de-escalating um disagreements. So when it comes to managing these journeys and even the financial components, it takes the whole village Right. And if there is something that the escrow company who doesn't interpret or make decisions on the contract can't handle with the agency, then we also bring in the attorneys to discuss it. So this overall process takes professionals coordinating with you with you as parents and surrogates and for you. So you again have a good team and then trust in them. Um if you pick the right people, the right parties, you'll get they'll get through the journey well.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, for sure. I I totally believe that. Um so let's just touch on the actual trust account for the intended parents and the surrogate. So what kind of visibility should people expect when they open their their escrow?

Adam Winder
For sure. Yeah, and I think Transparency is one of the most critical things in terms of peace of mind and security. You know, I remember when we first launched our our initial portal uh I think eight years ago, right? So people thought we were crazy. They were like it's gonna create too many questions It's going to create too much concern and too much oversight. And we kind of felt the opposite. We said, well look, creating this level of transparency is actually going to get provide peace of mind

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
It's gonna not have people reaching out or calling concerned about where's my money or what this was at. Rather it's at their fingertips. People are busy, right? And so I personally think having full and complete access to your escrow account, to all relevant payment your ledger, all relevant payment activity, future payments. all relevant documentations and notes on why things were approved or why things were changed. I think parents and surrogates should have access to their components of the journey. And also I think it's really important that the agency has full access to all their cases because again they they also keep a really close eye on our scroll in our hand in hand and even submitting requests So full full access, I think if you could if you provide 24-7 access along with notifications anytime money's moved or tweaked. Uh that pe it gives people full access and peace of mind that they don't have to worry about the money and know exactly where it's at at all times.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. I I mean like you mentioned it's sort of like a bank account, right? So years ago if you couldn't see your ledger, I mean can you imagine if you had your money put into an account and then you were like Okay, I went from having ten thousand dollars to having five thousand dollars, but I can't actually see where that money went. You know, I I think especially like you mentioned, seventy to eighty payments over two years I mean that can feel very overwhelming for somebody like 7080 payments, like what what am I paying for? What's coming out? Um, and just being able to see that in the transparency where you could see every single cent that comes out of your account obviously contractual. Um so you you know signed up for that but sometimes the the small payments right where you we're seeing a very broad spectrum like here is the amount you need to put into your account which is a big amount But then all these little things are paid out throughout the month to the surrogate. So I I couldn't imagine not being able to see that in it in it to be transparent.

Adam Winder
Yeah, in today's world, I think it's more common for most, if not all escrow providers to have some form of access. Again, if that doesn't exist, I mean the C trust obviously we innovated this, you have t you have full access and Also it gives me peace of mind knowing that everybody can see everything we're doing real time down to the who does it, when, time stamped. Yeah. Um you know, so I think but having access is critical. It provides peace of mind and a form of oversight. That access and those notifications quickly allow allow us for companies to adapt. So it's important.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. So just to touch on the payments, because obviously there are quite a few, how are the payments actually released during a surrogacy journey?

Adam Winder
Yeah, so we think of it, we think of the payments within a journey as contingent and non-contingent, right? So in in general You have you have payments that get scheduled. So things that are monthly that are recurring that happen at a benchmark at a benchmark. So You know, so things that get scheduled and at least within our system are gonna be like monthly allowances. Once that triggers, we know that money's going out every month. Base compensation. Once we get heartbeat confirmation, we're gonna look at that schedule and go ahead and schedule those payments so we can ensure everybody knows when they're going out, what date they're gonna be delivered. And exactly when to expect that money to be coming in and out of the account and delivered. So and then the other things are like insurance payments. These are critical that they're scheduled and go out on time so you don't have issues of lapse of insurance So those are things that an escrow company can look at the agreements, look at the contracts, use their industry knowledge and go ahead and schedule and make sure that those are out on time without requests coming in. You don't want those to get forgotten Yeah. And then there's all the other requests that come out that come throughout the journey. This is gonna be things like travel Uh medical appointments, legal bills, agency fees, monitoring clinics, Uber bills, you know Uh sometimes bed rest and and lost wages and all these things. So those are going to be based on how the journey goes and and And and what then those are usually s paid for and then submitted for reimbursements. Yeah. Or paid in advance if possible. So those items are going to get submitted to escrow Um with usually the documentation of them and then the escrow company is going to review that documentation, review the request, either ask for more information, deny it, or approve it. So Those are the types of different payments we see. And the complexity of some of these payments are quite involved. Like we joke about the things that are like the bane of our existence, like lost wages. Some people's compensation and the way they get paid is is complex. And the contract language around lost wages is also sometimes complex, right? So Yeah. We have tools and calculators to try to make it easier, but net verse gross, the timing, what stipulates it Things like that in Bed Rest where we're looking at compensation and reimbursement and compensation are really, really complex. So that's another area where the ask for company is quite involved

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. And a lot of that starts with the agency, right? So the we're just I'm just gonna touch on lost wages because obviously that's a big topic too. Where it's like, well, how do they get paid? Are they a hairdresser or an aesthetician or maybe they don't get a you know paycheck all the time? So like obviously those things start at the agency level where it's trying to figure out that amount or how that is getting paid up front so that obviously we can be as transparent with the intended parents when they're matching with that surrogate, right? You never want to match with a surrogate and then find out you're paying like hundreds and hundreds of dollars in lost wages or whatnot. Um and then obviously it goes into the contract, which then goes to you. So um Yeah, the lost wages is is not an easy thing uh in this process at all. And you know, obviously it changes, right? It's uh a lot of times people don't get paid the same as they might um you know when they started versus you know a year and a half in. So Yeah.

Adam Winder
Absolutely.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. So let's just kind of touch on the surrogate side. Um you know, a surrogate matches with an intended parent and you know, as much as we Tell them that you they're gonna have a trust account, I don't think that actually they actually like understand what that means. And so then, you know, they um get the communication back from the escrow company and they're like, what is this? Who am I giving this, you know, account info to? Right. And I think just because it is so heavily driven by the intended parents, the surrogates don't really understand like, well, why and um why do we need this or you know, um they just think that their name is gonna be on it and obviously they're gonna be getting payments. But like Explain why it is so important also for the surrogate to have the trust account and what that transparency looks like for her.

Adam Winder
Absolutely. Again, what servants are doing is absolutely amazing. Um and I don't think the compensation makes up for what they're doing. It's just a nice component. They're doing it to be that superhero or doing something amazing for another family.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
But in that there are also mothers and they deserve to and they have their own life and things going on and they deserve to be protected. So it's extremely important for surrogates to make sure that And we see it, and you know, we actually see it more and more where surrogates are demanding, especially after some of the fraud and some of the stories, where surrogates are demanding independent escrow and secure escrow. 'Cause if if you're a surrogate and you're gonna go on this journey and help another family, which again, you're amazing, you deserve to be protected. And how you how you or ensure you're protected is that the money's held in a fair way where you have an equal fiduciary, meaning the escrow company is responsible to make sure you get paid and you get paid on time and doesn't have a greater alliance to your parents, to your intended parents Um it's it's really critical. So that I would if I was a surrogate, I would avoid allowing your the IP's attorney to hold. They're not going to change your match based on what escrow company, right? But having that independent escrow company that's going to be there for you, make sure you get paid on time and make sure if there is a disagreement that if the money's handled strictly per the agreement and can never be weaponized against you. Like we've seen cases and I'll give you some silly examples. We've seen cases where a surrogate unfriended an IP on Facebook. The intended parent didn't like that. They try to hold compensation and medical bills. Obviously that's not a breach of contract, and those b those payments must go out. An independent escrow company can make that decision because they have to explicitly follow the contract. If I was representing the parents legally, I'd have a I'd have my legal duty to them and I couldn't make that independent decision I have to represent my client's best interest. So, or you know, that's a silly example, but it drives the point home. This process is complex. This process is emotional. And we get a lot of A-type people on the parent and the surrogate side. So having an independent party that's going to make sure your money's there, that you're paid on time and you're paid fairly based on what's due is extremely important. Also, this process is complex, right? Some of these cop calculations are complex.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
Some of the contract wording When you bring it down and try to understand it is vague. And honestly, the attorneys generally draft the contracts, you meet with them, and then it's off to the agency and the escrow company to navigate it.

Rebecca Deegan
the stuff that's in there, right? So we have to kind of help them understand what what is due to them.

Adam Winder
Yeah, no, for sure. And you and they want they need to have the agency and an escrow company they can go to and say, is this calculator right? What am I actually do here? And they need to be to under uh uh be insured and trusted that entity has their best interest at heart. Right? And that's really protecting them equally as well. I won't scare you with horror stories, but again, it's a very small minority of cases, but that's the ones you need to be have the protection in place for. We've also taken on over a thousand pro bono cases. of victims of fraud of other escrow companies and failed agencies that held escrow and having met with a lot of those individuals individuals personally and had those conversations, it's one of the most heartbreaking things ever. Right. So imagine that you're pregnant and you're working with a parents that have scrapped their life savings to go through this and you wake up one day and the escrow company's gone. Or the agency was holding escrow and they're gone. And the parents don't have the money. You're pregnant, there's medical bills out there, that's in your name. And what's gonna happen? It's not a fun process to navigate, so surrogate should be studious on not only Do I like the escrow company, but are they secure? Because your money and your and your financial future is there too, because if you get left holding the bag with these medical bills or in a tough situation Um it's not a good outcome for your family. So I think it's really important that surrogates become interested in escrow. Um and they also They should know that they're gonna get paid on time and with ease and not have to stress that. You have a family, you're carrying a baby. Again, as a man, I can't even fathom how amazing that is and how hard that is But you need to be protected and not have to chase down every penny that you're due and worry about that.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. And and the hard cases are hard and obviously we we don't like to see those Um, but in on the flip side of that, it's kind of a learning process, right? Like, okay, here's this issue that arose. How do we make sure that this doesn't happen again? Right. And I think that's on the agency side, on you know, the escrow side where We learn a lot from these these cases that really test us or that we saw issues arise and it's like, okay, we we've seen this, we move on, like, but how do we grow and how do we become better? And I think just as an industry, I think we're that's that's happening. Um and you guys for sure see it, and I'm sure you have lots of process and procedures in place that uh are in place because of issues that you've seen.

Adam Winder
Yeah, C Trust has had the pleasure of doing over thirty thousand cases, of managing over thirty thousand cases in this field. And we learn every day.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
Right? We've seen and and can guide you through. Your experience agency can do the same thing. Most things that come up we've seen and we know how to navigate or guide through. Um that may seem very different to you, but w this is what we do all day, right? We're we're working through cases and the one the ones that unfortunately the cases that don't go as planned are the ones that we're spending a lot of time helping navigate So just having that professional in place that you can trust to guide you is really important. Yeah. But we still wear it every day. I mean it I I still get cases where I'm like, well it didn't Never thought that could have happened. And then that gives us the opportunity to tweak the policy and tweak the way we work and make suggestions to tweak contracts, right?

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah, absolutely. I mean this is this is a very evolving uh industry and um what we did ten years ago is not the same thing we're gonna do today and we see the same thing, you know, twenty-eight years and it's like okay Some sometimes we say we see everything and it's like, okay, cool. Like we're we know how to move, you know, move past this um and learn and grow. So that's good. There's always growth in life and in business. So I think that just makes us better people. What's the biggest misconception that people have about escrow and surrogacy? What'd you say?

Adam Winder
Yeah, I th yeah, I think people don't understand escrow companies role in verifying And scheduling payments and verifying documentation. You know, I I don't think most parents know that Like as an escrow company, we catch millions of dollars in mistakes every day that are submitted that would have been approved if we didn't catch them. Not every day, every year. Millions a day would be a lot. Um but we we we catch a lot of mistakes because it's our duty to check that contract, check those receipts, and make sure it's per year agreement. Most I think most parties have no idea that we do that and we protect them in that way. I think a lot of surrogates don't understand that The escrow company's there to make sure they get paid if they're due the money and that that and that it's really important that that money needs to be in escrow before they're pregnant. Because after they're pregnant, escrow companies can't do anything if the money's not there. We can't make people fund escrow. So You know, escrow companies, you know, we end up in situations all the time where somebody's trying to stop payment to an escrow and our answer is it's in the contract. The money's due to her and if there's not a formal breach, she's getting paid. Uh so I think the I think those are the two misconceptions that escrow company takes the responsibility to check and verify receipts and make sure it's strictly per the contract or with approvals and that were really a function to make sure that the money's not used against the surrogate or weaponized and also protecting the surrogate's financial interests and credit For that matter, make sure she doesn't get left with medical bills and expenses and financial stress.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. And I think a lot of people don't even think about that part, you know, with the medical bills, like that's on the surrogate, which is why we want to make sure that she's protected to get those bills paid.

Adam Winder
Absolutely.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah. So um if somebody listening remembers nothing of what we talked about, um and they just catch the kind of end of this What are the three most important things that either surrogate or an intended parent should know about protecting their funds? During this. Absolutely.

Adam Winder
Well, you know, I've I've kind of given an outline of what I think matters in terms of security and to select an escrow company. I think when you're selecting a lot of your providers along your escrow journey, it's okay to pick a big, bigger or smaller provider, right? That then you I think what's important there is you find a qualified professional you can trust. Right. That you connect with because this is very personal and very complex. Escrow is a little bit different. You're picking a financial institution that's going to manage your money through a very complex journey. So I think you need to make sure that that escrow company is not just likable, but also is qualified and has the right security in place to do it well and protect your funds, whether you're the surgeon or the parent. So I kind of outline what I think needs to be in place. That's the minimum. You know, C trust exceeds those standards times 10. Um, because we always set we always work to set the gold standard and set that high bar. But what happened recently after some of the fraud in the field seeds actually, the Society for Ethics and Ag Donation inserti and a has set a standard for escrow. And that wasn't I was a drafting member along with seven other professionals that are experts in escrow, big and small. And we came together and put together what we think is a minimum standard for escrow. That's great. And that got voted in minimum sorry, minimum standards, my words, the standard for escrow Uh and that got voted in by seeds members with almost a unanimous vote. Right. So if you're looking to say, should I trust this escrow provider? Look to that and I would say if they don't check those boxes, I would run. Obviously I'm biased. C trust is the best, and we're gonna continue to set the high water mark in terms of what The future of this looks like and how to do it with extreme security and extreme customer service and protect everybody. But if you're gonna pick somebody else, just make sure they're secure. We saw people lose their entire all their funds to go through this journey because they picked an escrow company that was a hundred dollars cheaper. So they lost a hundred thousand to save a hundred And they just weren't informed about what needed to be in place.

Rebecca Deegan
Yeah.

Adam Winder
And trust me, haven't spoken to many of those parents, they just didn't know because they're picking their bigger the main providers and this can be an afterthought. So Make sure that's in place. Make sure you get pick a secure provider and do your research on this. I know it's stressful enough picking all the other providers, but make sure you do your research and make sure you're with a secure financial institution. You wouldn't You shouldn't put your money at a financial company that's not qualified and secure.

Rebecca Deegan
Right. Perfect. That was perfectly said. I think that's even if they w didn't watch anything, that would be good to know. But Adam, thank you so much for joining us today. This has been wonderful and I appreciate um your professionalism and your expertise in this field, which is why I wanted to chat with you, just because we You know, we hear about this every day and, you know, trust accounts and my money and you know, obviously money is just kind of like the center of this whole journey as much as it is a human life, but you know, the money, it's it's a lot of money. And um so um I think this would be very helpful for anybody that's looking into this process um to be able to make the right financial decisions for themselves. So thank you.

Adam Winder
It's been a pleasure. I know I can be really boring with this topic, you know, um, but um thanks for having me on. And you know We love working with SAI. We've had a lot of successful cases together and see how you all operate day in and day out and how you all represent your clients and and do so so well throughout journeys. I want to equally share that respect of of the or your organization and how you how you all manage these journeys and protect everybody

Rebecca Deegan
Thank you. Yeah, thanks so much. I mean, like I said, we we try every day and you know um we have been doing this for so long and we hope to continue to do this every day and help more families. So um, but it's helpful to have you know other great professionals on our side. So so much appreciated. Um Thank you guys all for joining the surrogate buzz today. And thank you, Adam, for joining us. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to leave a comment. We will look forward to seeing you guys all next time.